Multipliers REMIX: Conversation with Dr. Selen Turner

 Multipliers REMIX: Conversation with Dr. Selen Turner

Episode Summary

We told you Multipliers was too rich to leave alone — so we brought it back. In this REMIX, we sit down with Dr. Selen Turner, an HR executive, I/O Psychologist, and partner at Advantage Performance Group, who has put this framework to work across Fortune 500 companies and around the world. From spotting your own accidental diminisher tendencies to leading with kindness, this conversation is where the theory meets real life.

In This Episode

• What it really means to be a Multiplier vs. a Diminisher — and why nobody sets out to be one
• The "accidental diminisher" and how awareness (not perfection) is the goal
• The Rescuer trap: how jumping in to save the day quietly takes away your team's power
• Why your title makes your ideas land as orders — and how that blocks innovation
• Identifying your native genius by paying attention to the feedback you get most
• Leading up: what to do when your boss is a diminisher, and the risks of shielding your team
• The one Monday-morning move that changes everything — small gestures and kindness
• A first look at Selen's upcoming book, Unique Belonging, out this fall

Free Assessment

Want to discover your own native genius and spot your accidental diminisher tendencies? Take the free assessment mentioned in this episode:

Start your Multipliers learning journey: https://info.advantageperformance.com/your-multipliers-learning-journey-starts-here?submissionGuid=a226cd92-e80b-4d09-95a0-9bdf53a50736

New dashboard version (see your tendencies at a glance): https://www.advantageperformance.com/multipliers-mini-learning-journey/

Explore Further

See all the ways Multipliers comes to life — from the book to the simulation: https://www.advantageperformance.com/solution/multipliers/

Get the Book

Get the audiobook here: https://tidd.ly/4cnFaWb

Get your print or ebooks here: https://bookshop.org/shop/thedailydrivebookclub

Affiliate & Community Disclosure

Some of the links on this website are affiliate links. This means that if you choose to make a purchase, we may earn a small commission at absolutely no extra cost to you.

We partner with Bookshop.org for print and ebooks and Libro.fm for audiobooks because both platforms are designed to protect and financially support local, independent bookstores. Every time you buy a book or start a membership through these links, you are putting money directly back into the pockets of community booksellers.

Your support helps keep this podcast running and ensures your favorite local bookshops continue to thrive. Thank you!

Transcript

0:02

You're listening to the Daily Drive Book Club. A leadership audiobook experience where two leaders turn their commute into a classroom. I'm Vanessa. I'm Yanet. Sit in traffic with us as we drive, learn, and lead together. All right. Well, I-95, three right lanes blocked before 836. Woo, we're gonna be on here for a while.

Vanessa 0:26

good morning.

Yanet 0:27

Good morning. Good morning, everybody.

Vanessa 0:29

This morning we are super excited. We have with us Dr. Solene Turner. She is a seasoned HR executive, advisor, and industrial and organizational psychologist with more than 20 years experience shaping talent and culture strategies across Fortune 500 companies. As a partner at Advantage Performance Group, she helps organizations accelerate leadership development, sales enablement, culture transformation, and talent initiatives through innovative human-centered solutions. She's the founder of Thrive Forward Leaders Forum, a growing platform that brings together executives, scholars, and community leaders to explore the future of work, human-centered innovation, and empowered leadership. Through this forum, Solene creates space for meaningful dialogue, cross-sector learning, and practical insights that help leaders navigate rapid change. She is now working on publishing her first book titled Unique Belonging: Shaping Human-Centered Cultures to Unlock Innovation, which will be released this fall. So welcome and thank you for joining us today.

Selen 1:42

Thank you for having me. So excited to be here.

Yanet 1:47

I wanted to kick us off with a question. Dr. Selene Turner, what do you prefer, Dr. Selene, Selene, Dr. Turner, so we can get it right?

Selen 1:57

Selene is perfectly fine. Thank you for asking.

Vanessa 2:00

So Selene and I actually go way back, I think over 15 years ago. We met earlier in our careers, had the good fortune of crossing paths a few times professionally over the years. And then when we released our multiplier episode a couple of weeks ago, Selene reached out, letting us know that she loved that book, very familiar with Liz Wiseman's framework, has worked with it a lot, and that Liz was also in part, the inspiration for her own book coming out in the fall. So we thought, what a wonderful opportunity to revisit multipliers, and what better way to do that than with Selene? So Yanet, you could kick it off with the first question-

Yanet 2:38

All right. Selene,, for our listeners that are not very familiar with multipliers or with the framework- When did you come across this framework, and how have you put it into practice?

Selen 2:49

So this goes way back, I wanna say maybe two thousand eighteen, 'nineteen, around that time. That's when I first came across the framework and the book. I was working at Mastercard overseeing leadership development and talent, for all of Latin American Caribbean, And as part of a global HR team, we were tasked with, developing and implementing leadership development programs across the world. And Multipliers was part of that, program actually, I love the concept. It was so simple to understand, yet so powerful. I really fell in love with the framework. I fell in love with the whole concept. Since then, I, implemented in many different shapes and forms. But today, as a partner at Advantage Performance Group, Multipliers is one of our best-selling programs across the world. We work with Liz Wiseman Group, to bring it to life in many shapes and forms.

Yanet 3:47

Amazing. Before I hand it over to Vanessa, after all this time, do you consider yourself a genius maker?

Selen 3:55

Well, I don't know, but some of the assessments, actually tells me that, yes, I would love to be a genius maker and strive to be one. And I know my tendencies. I look at the assessment all the time to sometimes how I can be an accidental diminisher myself. I teach this for a living, but at the same time I think it's like the doctor, sometimes you cannot fix yourself. You need to see another doctor. I think we're always a work in progress as leaders, as professionals in our lives. And so I would say I always work on, trying to be aware of my accidental diminisher tendencies.

Yanet 4:37

That's what I'm working on currently. So that's perfect. Vanessa, take it away.

Vanessa 4:42

Multipliers was the third book that we covered for the podcast, and we both were, calling each other as we were reading it, like, "Oh my God, this book is amazing. We're genius makers." And then, we got to the section on accidental diminishers and we were like, "Whoops, we may also be doing some of those things." So We thought the book was amazing, and there was so much we could not cover in the first episode. So we're really excited about having the opportunity to revisit. Can you talk to us a little bit about some of the things that stand out to you about the framework? When you're implementing it, with the different companies or individuals that you work with?

Selen 5:24

I can actually give an example on how we do, practice what we preach at Advantage Performance Group. I came back to the framework when I joined, two years ago. we usually have every Monday a collaboration call among all of the partners. We're about 25, 26 of us. They were gonna introduce me to the rest of the partners, and they sent me the assessment and I'm like, "Oh, small world. Multiplier's back again." And then the way we introduce ourselves to each other is,, by starting with our native genius. So we made it a practice. And then of course we take the assessment. We refer to it in our collaboration calls. We talk about how we can become more multipliers. Most partners do facilitate multipliers and of course implementing many organizations they work with. So we try to practice, what we preach. In our team meetings Starting with the native genius. So we can start from a place of utilizing all our strengths, but also be aware of, some of the accidental diminishers we might have because that sometimes gets in the way of innovation and collaboration that we want to create. The other thing that I love is, that... liz also just, hit the one million bestseller, status- a couple weeks ago.

Yanet 6:42

Right after our podcast came out. I'm not gonna take any credit here. But right after the podcast came out, she hit a million.

Selen 6:50

Right. Exactly. So yes, thanks to you guys, so she was asking on her LinkedIn post how this impacted you, so that I told that to her beyond being a facilitator, a practitioner, what helps me is to see my diminishers because one of the things in the book, if you all remember, she stated that it's very rare that you can 100% be a multiplier at all times, right? We're not looking for perfection from anybody. We're looking for progress, being aware, catching yourself in the moment, how you might be maybe, being an idea fountain, right? I, score pretty high on that one. I'm in the 60s on that one, so I'm beyond the threshold. I can have a lot of ideas and, sometimes I can get very excited about my ideas and I feel that everybody should be excited about ideas, but that's not the case. It can be overwhelming, suck up the oxygen in the room. So I think that's one of the things that I always, try to work with leaders is we're not trying to be perfect. It's a spectrum and the most important part here is to be aware. Awareness is one of the most important things that we, talk about in leadership development, and how that might impact others in your team while you're interacting with them so you don't become an accidental diminisher. I think that's one of the biggest things. The other thing, that happens within the simulations that we run, is, making it real. Theories are wonderful, stories are great, reading books are great, but applying it, as you know, is a whole 'nother ballgame. And that's what we try to do is bring it really real life. How do you become more aware, so that you're constantly on the right side of the spectrum, having leaders discuss among themselves and create more of a peer learning, social learning environment is extremely important so they can also see the challenges and work through them,

Vanessa 9:03

You and Yanet have the idea fountain thing in common.

Yanet 9:06

I'm the idea man, I absolutely am. So I've been working on soft ideas and hard ones, so that I don't drive my folks crazy. And you guys would be proud, yesterday in the middle of a meeting, I told myself. "I'm going to shut up now," I said, "Here you go. You guys talk. I'm just gonna sit here and listen." So, There you go.

Selen 9:27

There is the self-awareness.

Yanet 9:29

Yeah, you have to catch yourself.

Vanessa 9:31

I think one of the things that we loved about this book, was that, she presented these theories and ideas and stories, but then Yanet and I were able to walk away from reading this book and already start implementing things Mm-hmm. She was immediately able to start telling herself to shut up in meetings et cetera. But- Yeah we also were then hungry for so much more. Like, how do you apply it in this situation? How do you handle that situation? Mm-hmm. And so I know that you guys have a bunch of tools and resources that people can use. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Selen 10:03

Of course, yes. There's so much to unpack here, and that's one of the things that we do. It's kind of unpacking the book a little bit, all that wisdom that comes out from the framework. And one of the things I love... i'm a big, assessments fan, hence the title IO psychologist. So we do, create and love assessments. That's our bread and butter. Right. And I love this one. There's a free assessment that people can take, and it gives you at least an idea of where you are. It's very easy. You answer, I think about 20 questions. Takes a few minutes only. And then it gives you all of your tendencies the rapid responder, the pacesetter, all of that in a spectrum. And then gives you a little bit of tidbits of information. Like for example, ask for their solution when someone brings you a problem or signals a need for help. Mm-hmm. Remind yourself that he or she probably already has a solution. I scored, pretty high On the rescuer as well, I'm looking at my assessment and it says "Ask how do you think we should solve it," instead of jumping and trying to be the hero, saving everybody. So I tend to do that as well. I love helping people. That's probably why I chose this HR profession, to begin with. Rescuing them, takes people's empowerment away the whole idea of multipliers is that you believe in people, that they have the capability to solve their problems. As a rescuer what you're doing if you jump into solutions or tell people what to do you're taking away their, ability or capability. It's almost diminishing without you intending to do so. So I would say definitely self-assessment is a great way to start. Again, catching yourself in the moment, it'd be a great start. But other than that, there is, different solutions later on. There's a simulation, for example. Jim Perry, I wanna call him out because he's a wonderful, instructional designer and facilitator. He's genius definitely. Is the brain behind the simulation. The simulation is, a whole day sometimes can be a couple days. It could be in different shapes and forms, but it's pretty hands-on, and we have different characters, and there's the manager, and there's the team. And everybody has a name, and then you go through different scenarios, throughout the day, throughout the simulation, and you kind of bring your day-to-day examples to life and how would you react in these situations and how does the accidental diminisher tendencies come about, and how do that turn that into more multiplier type of response and kind of get to practice these things. There's coaching as well. There's so much you can do with these type of frameworks because the language is so easy to understand and resonate with because we all live it.

Yanet 13:01

Interesting that you mention this because this part of the book very much interested Vanessa because Vanessa's the kind of leader, she's been in her position growing within the company, but has been there a long time. So people think, "Vanessa will save us. Like, let's go to Vanessa. She has the answers." You know? And it's both ways here. Like, you have to catch yourself too you wanna empower people But when you're putting it into action, it's harder 'cause you might have the answer, but you're trying to help them find it.

Vanessa 13:30

I was going to say that that's where you and I are aligned in the rescuer personality or trait, because I definitely find myself trying to jump in and be like, "I have the answer. Here you go. Don't worry. We'll fix it together." And, so that was very eye-opening for me when I was going through the book,

Selen 13:50

one thing that I was gonna say also in a rescuer mode, One thing that happens is, also blocking others' ideas because they might have different solutions that may be better than what you were going to say, and your authority in the room makes a difference. So if you're the manager jumping on and saving or coming up with ideas all the time, because of the power authority relationships we have, no matter how, supportive and friendly and approachable we are as leaders, it's still title matters, and that's how we sort our categories on how to respond to people. Because you have the authority, they will take your idea as the go-do-it. And so what happens is that kind of blocks the rest of the ideas to come to life, which as we know, that's where innovation happens. we know that a lot of us have different tendencies, and it's accidental. I love that name, accidental diminisher.

Vanessa 14:53

Right.

Selen 14:54

Because that also I think removes the shame that comes with it because nobody wakes up in the morning and says, "Oh, I'm gonna be a terrible lead." No- nobody does that.

Yanet 15:03

Some people are like, "I'm just gonna be a terrible human." I mean, you know? I don't know. But yes, mostly,

Selen 15:12

Mostly. Let's say majority. Majority of people don't wake up in the morning and say, "I'm gonna be a terrible human being today." So I think that removes that shame, guilt, Mm-hmm pressure that comes with like I'm expected to be perfect as you move up the ladder that pressure is enormous and your actions are much more visible, has many more implications. And I think that leaves us with, okay, I can be accidental. I'm not doing this on purpose, but hey, I'm working on it. And so I'm aware and I'm catching myself and it's work in progress. We're all work in progress all the time.

Vanessa 15:51

I wanna close out the piece on the tools and resources 'cause Yanet and I took the assessment. I'm still working my way through the findings. I mean, I, I guess I was surprised by a couple of things, not so surprised by a few other things. But I found it, super easy to take, actually kind of fun to take. Very, very eye-opening. And we are gonna put a link, in the show notes about where people can go to take the, free assessment for themselves and explore their traits. The one that I kinda struggled with a little bit was about the native genius, I, I struggled with that one a little bit. And so in the work that you do, do you help people maybe tease that out a little bit more for themselves if they're struggling with identifying that?

Selen 16:39

Yes, there are several questions you can ask, but it's basically what you're known for. So one of the ways to look at it is, at least the way I,, approach native genius is, what do you get the most positive feedback about from others? What are you most appreciated about? Because you're right, it's very hard to do it yourself-

Vanessa 16:58

Right

Selen 16:59

because it's too close. Right. So again, going back to the doctor, right? You sometimes cannot diagnose your own problems. So I know my native genius Is when people give me feedback. so for example, a few feedback that I've received from my, leaders over my career, has been that how I can take overly complex problems and turn into simple solutions. And I ran with it. That's one of my strengths. That's what I do really well, and I constantly rely on that one and remind people that I can do that and do that well. So, the other thing that I get a lot of feedback around is how I'm very collaborative and love connecting people. So I leaned on that over the years and used that to my advantage because that's my natural strength, it comes easily to me. It gives me so much energy. So that's one technique

Yanet 17:51

I cheated on that one a little bit because I took a Gallup test, a while back, and it hit the nail on the head. To me, my native genius is a word that I wouldn't have used, but when it popped up as my number one trait, I was like, "Oh my God, that is exactly what I am." It is activator. I activate. I'm gonna turn it on, and no matter what, we're gonna get this done. Now, again, of course it has its negatives, and every positive has a negative, right? Yes. But in me, what is natural 100% is if you wanna turn something on, you're gonna call me. And I'm like, "Yes, that is me." Now if you wanna turn something off, I'm probably not your gal. You know? It's not me.

Vanessa 18:38

And that's an interesting point too, Yanet, 'cause that was the one part of the book that you disagreed with a little bit, right?

Yanet 18:44

Yeah, knowing that, remember, we read the book once, so I haven't even revisited this part, And you mentioned it a little bit that your ideas or your energy can overtake a room. I have found that absolutely yes, my energy has taken over a room and has made the room better because it needed that energy. So it hasn't always been a negative for my energy to be as big as a room.

Selen 19:11

Absolutely, yes. And again, every positive has a negative, and I think that's the whole idea of the accidental diminisher, right? We don't see the shadow that we, cast in the room sometimes. Definitely we do need energy, activators and stimulation to get the positivity and optimism in the room, especially if the group is struggling. I think what, Liz or the researchers are saying is when it's too much. I think it's, again, catching yourself and reading where the room is at. Are they overwhelmed? Are they ready to take some of the ideas? It could be, for example, your organization going through a huge change. And now we are in the room talking about the change, and change may, adversely impact people's lives. And so, is it the right time to stimulate ideas and come up with ideas? Even though maybe we might have ideas and we're optimistic about the situation and we know that this can turn into wonderful opportunities for others, is it the right time? Do we wait Is it the right time to pull that energy out without overwhelming others? So I think it's, knowing when to stop, when to maybe half share the idea half-baked to stimulate other ideas and start a brainstorming type of discussion. How to position it so it doesn't become a, order versus just an idea. I had a manager and he was full of ideas, We loved his energy and all of that. He would say it so confidently. We would be like, "Oh yeah, that's a great idea." And he would say, "Guys, I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just throwing ideas. I know I sound very confident, but please don't take this as if I'm confident." So he would say that every time, "I know I sound very confident right now, but I really don't know, so please do challenge me."

Vanessa 21:04

There was a chapter which I found very interesting and I wished that there was more on this topic, when you're trying to be a genius maker, your boss is a diminisher. And I think that that's a dynamic that a lot of people encounter, because I think sometimes people become accidental diminishers because they're trying to deliver what the person above them wants, right? So how do you open up with the people that report to you when coming from above is very, restricted and diminishing,?

Selen 21:39

That is definitely a tough situation. I've had to do it myself as well, we call it shielding your team. There's pros and cons to that. If you shield your team too much, you're again taken away from their own ability and capability to grow, and deal with these situations themselves. And then when you leave or something happens, then it becomes a shock that they're now exposed to from the other skip level above. I've lived it, myself. That happened to me, my leader shielding, and then when she left, all of a sudden I was totally exposed and was in shock. And I did it myself, at times to my team to protect them, to also move things forward, right? You're trying to keep it positive, and because you're that type of person, it comes naturally, and that's how you respond to situations. So I think that's part of it. The other shadow part of that can burn you out, and it did for me. The other part that happens in organizations a lot when these situations happen, two leaders one step, above each other having very different type of, styles, I find the organization's culture also doesn't help the situation. Let's say the boss is diminishing, and the organization's culture is allowing for that to happen, that means something is also not playing right in the culture. And now the other manager's shielding the team from that. So we call that subculture when I do engagement surveys, I see this a lot, you see that team, for example, answering the questions about the managers very positively, about the organization very negatively. Mm. When I have those type of teams, I know that that's what's happening. So the-

Vanessa 23:29

Interesting

Selen 23:29

maybe there's something about the culture, something about the team,- is maybe not working well, but the manager is perceived as the savior and the hero and the protector, and so they have a very happy, protected team. That's what happens. It becomes a subculture, and it becomes a us and them situation, which can be very dangerous, because that team may feel that they're not part of the larger team and start, giving up on helping to solve the bigger problem, and feeling isolated within the bigger picture. So it is a very, tough situation to be in. I've seen people, in those situations as well. What you would hope in that situation is that the diminishing, manager to get the feedback, to hear the feedback and change the behavior. That's the most desirable outcome there. So I would say definitely give the feedback. Do not shy away from it. Because you also have an obligation to protect the team. Try not to be the rescuer in that case. But more so use your voice to effect change in a positive way so the bigger system and the culture can change.

Vanessa 24:45

I think we need a whole book just on that topic. and- I think everybody has dealt with that at some point in their career And it may not even be your direct boss, right? It may be their direct boss and it's trickling- down to you I mean, like you said, ultimately it's a culture thing at that point. So, very interesting- Mm-hmm and something I definitely wanna learn more about.

Yanet 25:03

In the book, I found it very interesting that, in building geniuses, there is a science behind it, and hence we have all these tools, right? To help us build geniuses. But when our boss is a diminisher, we have to be able to combine science with some art, so some soft skills to be able to manage that person. And I'd love to, again, in another podcast, take a deeper dive into the art and science of managing a diminisher.

Vanessa 25:32

Maybe that's a part three conversation. I feel like we could have done an episode on each chapter of this book and just still not even scratched the surface. It was so good. Yeah. Yeah. My other question, which, may incorporate multipliers but not specific to multipliers, is just, you've had a lot of experience doing this kind of work across all kinds of organizations. What's one of the biggest lessons that you feel you've learned along the way about leading in a human-centered way?

Selen 26:05

As I'm writing my book I'm also doing a lot of research, six, seven years in the making now. One thing I'm gravitating more and more towards is this notion of small, gestures, and, kindness is a big one, I'm digging into research around how kindness at work can be life-changing for all of us, all the things that we're just talking about, right? How, kindness makes a difference as a leader, and as a human being in general, but also as a leader, and that's one thing that I've been gravitating towards in the last couple years, is how can we do more of that? I took it as my personal promise, as well for the last couple years. How can I be more kind person, help other people in dire situations? But it's also just, being that human being, after all. And I think in leadership right now, what I'm seeing a lot is that is needed most, right now. The engagement is at all times low in organizations. I'm facing that myself with my current, clients I'm supporting I'm doing engagement surveys, and I'm seeing firsthand data is showing that. So I think that's one thing that I'm learning is yes, there is so many things we can do as leaders and so much work to be done, and it's always work in progress, but if we can start with kindness, I think a lot of it resolves itself. And that's the most human-centric way of leading. And that's how my book started is, as part of my dissertation through my PhD, I interviewed, close to 30, women across different levels and different organizations, from Fortune 500 to nonprofits, to understand what makes them give all of themselves at work. What makes them motivated and satisfied and wanna do, their best? And, that's one thing that came across with those, small gestures and how kindness that they have seen from their leaders made a difference for them personally and professionally.

Vanessa 28:20

My next question was gonna be- What's the one thing people can start doing Monday morning to be better leaders? Would that be your response to that?

Selen 28:29

Yes.

Vanessa 28:30

Being more kind in the office?

Selen 28:33

Yes. Exactly. Kindness I think Goes a long way. We need more of that right now. Yes. Small gestures. What does this person need today? Kind of seeing that these are human beings with full lives, so how can we be more, responsive, supportive and, kind to each other? I think that would be my message. I'll give an example, from my study. And this is, again, me learning through this research and study in the process of writing my book. One of the examples that one of my participants gave me was, she was going to do a presentation that afternoon that was going to be to the senior leadership. And she was very nervous that day. And she prepared a lot, so when she came to work, her boss, brought her favorite coffee. And then she also wrote a note on the coffee cup, and she said, "You got this." Oh. And she told me how this made a big difference that her own boss, believed in her, and supported her and encouraged her. And that little small gesture, made a massive difference for her presentation. Recognition is one of the most, desired, we see in every engagement survey across the board and sometimes we think that it, there's all this massive platforms and massive, money that we need to pour into. Yes, that's great. Definitely supportive of that, but I was reading an engagement survey yesterday, for one of my clients, and one comment said, "All I want is well dones, thank yous, and great jobs." It almost brought tears to my eyes.

Vanessa 30:12

Yeah. We forget sometimes how important that can be.

Selen 30:17

Right. Right.

Vanessa 30:19

The last question is and you've covered some of it already, but tell us more about your book, how it came about, when we can expect it

Selen 30:27

I know it's my day and night right now. Almost done. We are in the editing process right now. It all came about,, from my dissertation when I started my study, in 2020. As I was going through my PhD, I really wanted to do something that was going to be impactful. Although they do tell you to keep your study, very low key and try not to change the world with your dissertation. So I started a small study. It wasn't massive, but then I took it further, as well. So my study was all about, leadership behaviors that creates inclusive environments. And I interviewed about 30, women across the board, nonprofits. And, try to understand the behaviors makes a difference, and direct connection to innovation. So what are some of the behaviors that leaders do that gives you that, as I mentioned before, your best self, your best ideas, and what really sparks that. And then on the other side, I also studied organizations and what kind of, conditions the organizations needs to create. So out of the study came a wonderful framework that I was very proud of, but I didn't want it to sit on a shelf in an academic journal of 300 pages.

Vanessa 31:46

Right.

Selen 31:47

So I knew nobody wanted to read 300 pages, although I do feel that it's one of my best works. I know not everybody wants to read that. And so I said, "Why don't I turn it into a book?" And a publisher reached out to me, didn't go with that publisher, but, found another one, Red Thread Publishing, and I'm very happy with my choice. And they guided me through. Now it's three parts. I also included the self portion, how we ourselves can be part of that, solution and how can we, voice our own selves, because there's also things that we, again, accidentally do that contributes to the environment, in a negative way or sometimes positive way. So what are some of the things that we can be not afraid to speak our own voice, and along the way also inspire others and inspire a chain of reaction, and how leaders and organizations can contribute to that. So it's three parts. And there's a framework and also diagnosis to come with it. I'm very excited about that. Sometimes I feel like we're overcomplicating- So I was trying to simplify it using my own native genius. And, so it's coming out in fall, hopefully.

Vanessa 33:02

Super exciting. We cannot wait to read it. We will definitely cover it on this podcast, and hopefully have you back so that we can break it down further when that time comes.

Selen 33:12

Thank you. I'm excited. Thank you for having me.

Vanessa 33:15

Of course.

Yanet 33:16

Hon- Thank you, Selen, for sharing your genius with us.

Vanessa 33:19

Yes. You have made us geniuses in this conversation. Expanded our genius a little bit, so thank you.

Selen 33:28

Of course. Thank you. I love the podcast. I'm a big fan from the day you both launched it. It's such a genius idea, and knowing, of course, Juanita, and getting to know you, Yaneth, it's been wonderful to hear your voices and getting to know some of the books, and being part of the journey. It's a wonderful idea. I love it.

Vanessa 33:46

Thank you. Thank you. We appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you. So again, we're gonna put a link in the show notes- All right to the resources so you can learn a little bit more about this, assess yourself, and take some next steps. Thank you, and have a wonderful rest of the day.

Yanet 33:59

You

Selen 33:59

too. Thank you, everybody. Bye, everyone.

Vanessa 34:02

Bye.

34:04

That's our commute for today. Got a question, a book suggestion, or something on your mind? Email us at thedailydrivebookclub@gmail.com. Show notes for this episode are in the description. Thanks for driving with us on the Daily Drive Book Club. Keep driving, keep learning, keep leading. We'll see you on the next one. And by the way, no laws were broken during this recording. That's a whole nother podcast. You're listening to the Daily Drive Book Club. A leadership audiobook experience where two leaders turn their commute into a classroom. I'm Vanessa. I'm Yanet. Sit in traffic with us as we drive, learn, and lead together. All right. Well, I-95, three right lanes blocked before 836. Woo, we're gonna be on here for a while.