Good to Great REMIX: Conversation with Gladys Reed

The Daily Drive Book Club
 📖 Good to Great REMIX: Conversation with Gladys Reed

Episode Summary
What makes a leader worth following — and how do you build a team that gets the right things done, day after day? In this REMIX episode — The Conversation After the Book — we revisit Good to Great with our friend and fellow leader Gladys Reed, the career banker who first put this book in our hands. Recorded from the usual commute (I-95 doing its thing), we get into why Jim Collins' principles still land decades later, and where we still respectfully disagree with him.

In This Episode

• Why Good to Great still holds up: the right people on the bus, confronting the brutal facts, the hedgehog concept, and the flywheel
• The debate we can't let go of: can you find the right people before you have a strategy? Yanet pushes back, Vanessa and Gladys make their case
• Hiring for the intangibles — spark, chispa, ganas — and the soft skills you just can't train
• Gladys' "would I buy from this person?" test for anyone in a client-facing role
• The free-ice-cream interview story — and why authenticity wins in the room
• Three interview questions worth stealing: "Paint your perfect job," "What drives you?" and "What have I not asked that you want me to know?"
• The biggest struggle in leadership: complainers vs. solution-owners — and why the same rule works at home
• Venting vs. problem-solving — and knowing the difference
• Monday-morning advice: lead by example, treat people how you'd want to be treated, and embrace that great people do it differently
• The one thing in life with no solution (Gladys' mother was right)

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Transcript

0:02

You're listening to The Daily Drive Book Club A leadership audiobook experience where two leaders turn their commute into a classroom. I'm Vanessa. I'm Yanet. Sit in traffic with us as we drive, learn, and lead together. All right. Well, I-95, three right lanes blocked before 836. Woo, we're gonna be on here for a while. Morning, Gladys. Good morning, Vanessa. Good morning. Good morning. This is exciting. All right. I- All right, let's- Like, this is the highlight of my week. thank you, Gladys. Those of us who know Gladys know she has great weeks sometimes, so this is exciting that we are her highlight- Nice and early in the morning. We're gonna jump right in here. People forget theories, but they remember stories, particularly great stories, which leads us to our masterful storyteller, leader, and our friend, Gladys Reed, who recommended Good to Great by Jim Collins. Today, Gladys is joining us for what we're calling a remix, where fellow leaders help us revisit some of the books and some of the learnings we've had, and then we share their point of view and have a great chat. So Gladys, welcome to The Daily Drive Book Club. I feel really honored to be on. And thank you for those very nice words. By the way, congratulations. I listened to your podcast. It's great. I, I think this is awesome what you're doing. Thank you. Thank you. gladys, you have talked About this book a lot. You've mentioned it a lot. You've said it's a great book, but I also know you read it a long time ago. So we're curious, what about the book stood out to you that you felt was so great that's really stuck with you all this time? Yeah. Thank you so much, Vanessa. In fact, I think Jeanette knows this. I actually recommended the book to her when we were having conversations. I love to read. I think you guys obviously love to read. You started this podcast. But what sticks out to me, and I did read it a long time ago, but I really feel that what Jim Collins outlined, is still very relevant today. There's seven principles, but there's three that I just wanna briefly highlight you gotta have the right people on the bus. It sounds so easy, but yet it's so difficult to do. So that always sticks out in my mind. I like also one of the other principles, which I think is very important, you have to confront the brutal facts. And in fact, I'm kinda quoting, but I wrote this notes last night- As I was preparing for the podcast, that it says, "Create a culture where truth is heard and acted upon without blame." you have to do it in the right way. You gotta do it respectfully with facts. You have to confront, the brutal facts of what are we doing correctly, what can we do better, what should we not do? I think that is very healthy for any organization. And then I remember the hedgehog concept and, I think that one's also very interesting. And then finally, I love the flywheel and doom loop, and again, oh, oh, the flywheel. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just a big believer in that transformation relies on small things that add up. It's not just one big thing. Whether you're in fundraising, of course, you guys both know my story. I was a career banker. Any organization, I think it's doing a lot of things every day correctly, discipline is what gets you from good to great. Thank you for that. That- thank you for that. And, you're right. Everything there stood out to us. I mean, I love that most of the time we agree, but sometimes we don't, or sometimes we're like, "I, I get it, but I'm not that." Like the hedgehog concept. Vanessa dives deeper usually into it, because I'm like, "Vanessa," after a little while, "I'm a fox. I'm gonna go jump around," but it does keep your feet grounded, and it's like, what are we doing? What can we be the best at? What can we make- Yeah money off of? And what are we gonna enjoy while we do all this? And that- Right it sounds simple, but it's hard. It's hard. It's hard. When you read the book, did you feel that what you were reading was validating things that you already knew and were already doing and experiencing? Or do you feel that it changed how you lead? That's a great question. I would say I, I read it when I was already in upper management in banking. So I, I would say that it validated a lot of what I thought. But I also think that it really shaped my management style. Again, the whole thing about you gotta confront the brutal facts, you've gotta have the tough conversations, behind closed doors with folks. What Jeanette said about the hedgehog concept. I think that probably is the more difficult one of really trying to figure out what are we best at doing? Where does the passion lie? What's driving this economic engine? So I would say a combination of both, but definitely validation. And, and so one of the things that Jeanette struggled with in this book was the idea of, getting the right people on the bus. Well, she agrees with that, but I think it was also saying you have to do that before you can, Determine what your strategy is Build a strategy? Right. And so Yanet was like, "How do I know who the right people are if I don't know what my strategy is?" And I think the book is saying that when you get the right people on the bus, they help you build your strategy. But how did that all sit with you? How do you see that? All three of us manage and lead teams, so we're the driver of the bus, and the whole idea is, A, you do want the right people on the bus in the right roles, and all of their goals need to align with the driver of the bus. Yeah, I do struggle with the strategy in Bus. I love the idea of having the right people on the bus. Yeah. What I struggled with is Jim says to get the right people on the bus, and then together, you build a strategy. And I'm like, if I don't have a strategy, how do I know who the right people are?" And Vanessa says, "Well, if you get the right people, the people with ganas, with the fire in the belly, then they're gonna know where things need to go." And so I struggle with that concept because I still don't know if I can find the right people without having some strategy first. So Gladys, you take it away. I understand your point. I mean, I, I don't wanna cop out with the answer that it's somewhere in the middle with both or both are important. I do think you need to have a strategy and then fill those roles. On the other hand, I agree with what Vanessa says. I mean, it's happened many time in my banking career, where, sometimes the person, just has the right attitude. Chispas. Spark. Yeah that's kind of that energy, that spark. Correct. The right person with the soft skills, that is very hard to train. You can train anybody to do tasks and everything else, but you can't train somebody to have those soft skills. I think if you build your team around people like that, whatever you set your mind to do as a strategy will get done. I wanna dig into a little bit about what makes the right person. So when you're looking, again, assuming you don't know what your strategy is and you're just trying to get the right people that are gonna help you build something amazing, what are those qualities you look for? Because for me, what you said is exactly right. I will hire someone based on their personality, their energy, their ganas, their chi spot, even if they don't have any experience in the exact area that I need, because I can train them on all of that, but I can't change who you are fundamentally, right? But what are those concrete things that you look for when you're hiring someone? at one time in banking, I managed probably like 150 people, maybe more than that, more like 200. And believe it or not, I had like 45 direct reports at one point, which was pretty insane. And I did that for a long time. So to me, hiring is like what Forrest Gump says, "It's like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get." Right? Yeah. Ah, that's good. Yeah. Life's like a box of chocolates. It... Yeah. One of my favorite movies. It's like a box of chocolates. You never know what you get, unless you previously worked with the individual- Right, right so first of all, let's start with the premise that it is like a box of chocolate, I think especially these days, and hopefully you just have more hits than misses. So in interviews, people are always gonna say the right thing, but I look beyond just what's on the resume and experience. I look at exactly, Vanessa, what you're saying. I look, obviously, if they come in, are they dressed appropriately for the role? Is there good direct eye contact? Is there just that spark? I've always worked on the client-facing side. Here's the way I look at it. If I'm in front of this person, if I was a client And I'm looking at somebody, that is smiling at me, good eye contact, good articulation, depending on the job, communicator, would I buy something from them? So in my mind, when I'm interviewing, that's what I'm looking at. What if I, not as the hiring manager, but what if I was the client, would I buy from this person? And more times than not, when I've made those decisions, they were the right decisions. That's awesome. Well, thank you. I wanna jump in here because I have been interviewed by Gladys Reed. Gladys has a shine in her eye, right? She walks in the room and she's a ball of energy. I bring a lot of energy. In my interview, it was a panel interview, but when Gladys and I started talking and the word magic came up, right? And I didn't give an exact example, but I told her how much trust and how much I would build and how much magic we could build together, and we were talking eye to eye. To me, everybody else in the room kind of disappeared, and Gladys and I were just having a conversation. So Gladys, you're 100% right that interview felt more like a conversation, so thank you. Yeah. And again, easier said than done and, and we're all human beings, we're flawed, so nobody gets this 100%, but in today's world of distractions, the phone, my, uh, Apple Watch and news pops up. There's a lot of distractions in today's world. But when I'm having a conversation with someone, i really try to pay attention and give eye contact and listen. Listen more than you talk, 'cause you find out a lot of things about people that way, and make it seem like they're, the universe of one. Mm and I think that's what connects people the most. The universe of one. Vanessa, we're borrowing that. Yeah. The universe of one. The universe of one. I'm gonna come home tonight like, "Honey, make me feel like a universe of one." Yeah. He's gonna be wondering. Oh. Que locura. I would love to know, do you have a favorite interview question that you like to ask let me cheat and say just two quick ones. I do like to ask towards the end, if you would paint your perfect job, what would that look like? Mm-hmm. Because believe it or not, I've gotten many times responses that has nothing to do with who I'm trying to hire for the role. I'm like, "Okay, forget about that," in my mind, right? Yeah, yeah. So I like to ask that. Tell me what would the perfect job for you be? And you could almost go anywhere, right? Like what type of boss you want. Yeah. I make it very broad, so I like to ask this. But also, again, kind of back in my client-facing days, generally if I interviewed somebody that had a little bit of experience or even if they didn't have experience, I would ask, "tell me about a day where you had a difficult client. What was the situation, and how did you make them whole or happy again or content?" And to me, that says a lot from the person of what that situation was what was that solution. I have a very good friend in banking, and that's really important. I mean- Yeah, yeah you're dealing with people's money, you're dealing with people's livelihoods. So, that's a really important question Well, I'll also tell you something really quickly. I once interviewed, management training in banking. It was off a panel, and this was for, a paid job, internal training in the bank where it was pretty high profile for a job really that was folks coming from college. And I interviewed this gentleman, and if he was listening, he's gonna remember it's him, he had very limited job experience, and he had worked at a restaurant, you could imagine one of the toughest jobs working with clients is in a restaurant. I mean, this is undocumented. And, he was saying that, a client got upset at the meal and made a fuss or whatever, and his boss wasn't around. And then he said all the right words to appease him, and then he gave him free ice cream, and that made the the whole night. And everybody in the panel laughed The way he said it was a good story, but we hired him, by the way, and till this day, he's a successful banker, and I always relate it back to that story because he was never intimidated or took it personally, and the couple at the restaurant were really pretty upset. And he kept his cool. His manager was not around, and he really just softened the situation, and hey, the free ice cream worked. And I thought- ooh, there's the spark there. Yeah, I could never work in a restaurant couldn't deal with that. Well, I would be very happy if they gave me free ice cream too, so. That's a good strategy. Yes. Yes. Yeah. That should be the strategy for life. Whenever we're angry- Yeah, yeah, yeah it's like, ice cream. Yes. Yes. Yes. Can't go wrong with ice cream. Can't go wrong with ice cream. Who doesn't love ice cream? I mean, come on. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm curious, Yanet, if you have a favorite interview question what drives you? Mm. What drives you? Like, what, what gives you the energy that, can't stay inside? Like, for real, what drives you? Like the daily drive? Like the daily drive. The daily drive- Yeah, what drives you? You know what I mean? And in my field of communications, people have to have passion. Yeah. There's some careers that I'm sure you don't have to be, passionate. In mine When you're telling people stories, when you're connecting dots and trying to tell stories different ways, it can be through someone we've helped or turning the data into a story. So you gotta be passionate about something. You have to show me. 'Cause if you don't have fire in the belly, I don't want you. I can't build that for you. Right. 100%. 100%. My favorite interview- Yeah question is the one I say At the end after I've asked all the questions, then I ask, "What have I not asked you that you want me to know about you?" Ooh. Oh, that's a good one. Yeah. That's a good one. That's a good one. It's... Okay, I'm writing both of those. I, I love that. Ooh, that- Yeah that, I love that question. Sometimes there might be something that through the conversation- Yeah that didn't come to the surface that is really unique and exciting and that's- Absolutely a great opportunity if they wanna take it to really stand out. And so it's, it's a lovely question. Note to anyone who is listening. And this I bring from media relations, when somebody asks you that question, I don't care if you say, "I love puppies," but you say something. Right. When somebody asks you, "Anything else you'd like to add?" You add- Great one something short and valuable. Yep. I agree. The worst answer is, "No, I think we covered everything." I'm like, okay. I- Oh. Yeah. Yeah, that's a bummer. I agree. And look, I'm stating the obvious here, but Janelle, I think the other thing is you wanna be your authentic self, like you're saying. "Hey, I'm an animal lover," great. Yeah. Because that goes back to the gentleman that I interviewed about the ice cream. It was authentic. You could tell that it came out authentic. It was a funny moment, but it showed a lot about him. So I agree with that. You gotta have an answer, and of course, it's gotta be authentic. Absolutely. Absolutely So two more final questions. Sure. Sure what do you think is the biggest struggle as a leader? The biggest struggle as a leader is, I'm the type of person, again, far from perfect 'cause there's no such thing, but I really feel that I work hard, I lead by example, I, I feel I'm a good communicator, I'm respectful, I don't ask people to do something I'm not willing to do. And what I struggle with is when I hire an employee, and I know the way that I treat them and I expect the same from my direct report, and then they, are just, sour all the time or they're complainers. And it's okay if somebody comes to me and is not happy with something. I've done this a lot too. I've asked employees if there were two or three things that I can do to make you happier at work is within my control, because giving you a huge raise would not be in my control if there's budgets. Every company has budgets. I love to ask that question too. And so when they're just complainers or whiners, they don't find a solution, I just have a hard time with folks like that. I just have a hard time with folks like that in general in life- Right to be honest with you. So that's what I would say. I, I would say- And we have found that, Gladys, we have found out that what we talk here about business and leadership, we had a mom reach out and say, "I can use this in my home." Well- Yes yes, 'cause we're like the CEO of our houses, therefore... You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I tell my kids two main things that... I mean, we all are mothers and we all, parent in a different way, but I always say, and I use this in my management too, is, I can't control, other people's behaviors, but I can control my behavior. Right. You know? You know when kids come and they're like, "Oh, so and so did this," it doesn't matter. You control your own behavior. You don't, can't control others. And I think the other thing too that I always try to tell my kids about is that if there's a problem,, come to me with a solution. Yes. Be part of the solution. Yes. Yes. Don't be part of the problem. You gotta be part of the solution. As you said, Gladys, it's okay if you're having a bad day, right? Yeah. So I used to tell my team, are you venting?" 'Cause I can, listen to a vent, Or- Yeah are we doing something about this, and what's your recommendation? And they could just be like, "Just let me vent for a minute." I'm like, "Go for it." Because sometimes we have to let it out. But then I'm like, "Okay, so what are we gonna do about it?" You know? Like- Yeah because you can't keep dragging things on. Listen, we're away from our families and we're working, so it has to matter and it has to feel good. And you can have a bad day, but you can't have, a bad life at work. We're reading a Netflix book, right now, as a matter of fact, and if you're having just a horrible time at work, we can show you to the door, give you a package, have you go. Like- Yeah there's nothing we can do for you. Right. If just it's everything is bad, then there's nothing I can do- Right as a leader. Yeah. To me, venting is important. All my bosses have known Vanessa just needs to vent, and then she's back on task. Yeah. I just gotta let it out, and then I'm gonna deliver something awesome for you. I had a mentor early in my career that said, "Don't ever walk into your boss's office with a problem you don't have at least a couple of recommended solutions for." Yeah. And I've just- No, absolutely be the problem solver, not the problem, raiser I used to tell my bankers, this drives me crazy in my personal life and business life is I'm used to being a decision-maker and I had to make a lot of decisions in banking every day, every minute of the day. What I would tell my bankers when I would hear the same problem, the same problems, like I get bored hearing the same thing. What is the solution? My mother taught me this, everything in life has a solution other than death, like that doesn't have a solution- That's right unfortunately. Everything else- Right has a solution. And- La muerte es lo único que no se arregla. I- There you go. There you go. So- That's right don't come to me every day or every week, with this nagging same thing let's find a solution to it. And by the way- Yeah I will find a solution, but I want those that report to me, I want it to be their solution. Right. You want them to own it. Absolutely. Own it. I own it. What, what is the answer here? What do you... even if ultimately maybe it's not what I wanna do and I need to step in- Mm-hmm That drives me crazy too, like those nagging things that just don't get resolved. Right. Like, get them resolved. So last question. What piece of advice would you give to the leaders out there that are listening, for their Monday morning? They're getting ready to start their week. What piece of advice would you offer? Some of this stuff we kind of all know. Two important things is always lead by example. Like I said, don't ask your people to do something you're not willing to do. Even if you're a higher level and your position and role is different, I also have... always learned from the very beginning when I started managing people in my mid-20s. I treat people the way I like to be treated. Even to this day, when I know that I'm gonna have a conversation with an employee that could be a little bit difficult, a little bit tough, I, the day before, kind of run through my head, what am I gonna say? And then I tell myself, If I was that person and I heard that, right, if I was the employee, how would I react to that? What do I think their comeback is gonna be? So I, in my mind, work through it because I think at the end of the day, the best type of managers understand that everybody has a different personality. By the way, generational thing that comes up today, I hired and promoted a branch manager at 25, and I hired somebody at 75. There's a 50-year gap. Mm. They were both really good at what they did. They just did it differently. So embrace that people are different. Embrace that people come with different views. But at the end of the day, it goes back to the bus. If everybody's marching at the same way towards the same goals of the company, then that's what matters at the end of the day. Thank you for that. And I would just say- Wah, wah, wah, wah. That was, that was good. I just wanna say that we are, so thankful that you agreed, to be a guest on our podcast because we both, think I can speak for Yanet when I say that we both really admire you as a leader. Your professionalism, your work ethic, your directness, your transparency, I feel like in the short time that we've worked together, that I've learned a lot from you about how to be a good leader, so- Oh thank you- Oh for having the conversation with us today. Well, let me just say in conclusion I'm not kidding when I said I was so excited to do this today, it's likewise. I, you two are, uh, among my favorite colleagues. And the thing that I love about you both is that, in any job you have those stressful moments and days, but we always find a way to make each other laugh, and I think that's an important piece, too. We can't forget to laugh and have fun at work, and you both do the same thing. So I appreciate you both greatly. Thank you. Thank you. Yanet, do you have any Final thoughts? No, other than thank you, gratitude I really, think that, as leaders we have to listen to each other, and Gladys brought up this book, and I'm really glad we read it. Because it also was part of the spark of our podcast. Like, you know, we had read one book and then, then we were like, "Wait a second, we think this could be something," so we're excited about it, and thank you, Gladys. If you have another one, you send it our way. Oh, I, I do, and I'll text you guys both about it. It's a great book. We'll put it, we'll put it on the, on the rotation. Again, thank you Have a wonderful day, rest of your week. You too, guys. Have a great day. Thank you again. You too, Gladys. Thank you. Okay. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye. That's our commute for today. Got a question, a book suggestion, or something on your mind? Email us at thedailydrivebookclub@gmail.com. Show notes for this episode are in the description. Thanks for driving with us on the Daily Drive Book Club. Keep driving, keep learning, keep leading. We'll see you on the next one. And by the way, no laws were broken during this recording. That's a whole nother podcast.